After thirty minutes and forty-one seconds of listening to a ‘confession’ that Terrence Dodson said he heard from his cousin, Charles Mamou, investigators knew they had a problem.  The times didn’t fit.  If they could get past the bizarre confession itself – how were they going to work with the timeline…

It appears they attempted to help him, even though the details didn’t fit what they knew to be true.  At 30 minutes into the videotaped interview, and after Terrence Dodson described a lengthy ‘confession’ that took place in a single phone call…

30:41 (Switches cops)

Cop: Uh, yea real quick, from what you just told us, you said it was Monday at 1:30 Baldy took Chucky to the bus station. And then Tuesday morning he called you and he lays it all out. I wanna make sure, Chucky went back to Louisiana on the very day after he did this jacking is that right? Or what, could it have been Tuesday?

Detectives wanted Dodson to say Mamou had left Texas on Tuesday afternoon, because they knew Mamou was in Texas on Tuesday, and they also knew the ‘confession’ could not have taken place the way Dodson was describing it, but they continued to record.

It was Wednesday, December 9, 1998.  The previous day, Tuesday, investigators had contacted Charles Mamou, Sr., who told them that he had last seen his son, Charles Mamou, Jr., with Terrence Dodson, his cousin.  Unbeknownst to him, Mamou’s father led police to the key witness in a case that would send his son to death row. 

The same day Mamou’s father heard from police, he contacted his nephew and told him detectives had stopped by with a picture of him.  And so began Charles Mamou’s journey to over two decades on death row.  Terrence Dodson contacted police the same day and said his cousin, Charles Mamou, Jr., had confessed to him.  Within hours the man who police were looking for in connection to a murder was in front of a camera and giving a video statement, sharing a story that couldn’t have possibly happened the way he said it did. 

At that point in time, investigators were well aware that Charles Mamou, Jr., had been in Texas until some time on Tuesday, December 8, 1998.  According to Supplement 9 of Incident Report 156416498, the detective who was recording the statement, Sergeant Novak, had documented what he learned the day before, ‘he and Officer Chisholm had interviewed Robin Scott at her work.  According to her, she had called her apartment and the suspect, Charles Mamou, was there with her brother, Howard Scott.  Robin Scott was asked to sign a consent to search for her apartment and she did.’  Novak had Robin Scott call her apartment to find out if Charles Mamou was still there on Tuesday morning. After he found out Mamou was, he called in patrol units to watch the apartment while he obtained a warrant.  Sergeant Novak and the other officers in the room all knew that Charles Mamou had been in Howard and Robin Scott’s apartment until mid morning on Tuesday, December 8, 1998.

Although it turned out that Charles Mamou left the apartment after Robin Scott’s phone call and before police were able to surround the apartment, when they interviewed Howard Scott, the resident, he also told officers that Charles Mamou had spent Monday night in his apartment and had left on Tuesday morning.

Sgt. Novak was a seasoned detective.  He had worked for HPD for nearly thirty years at that point.   And he and the other investigators had been working on this case since Monday.  They also had taken a written statement from Robin Scott on Tuesday, in which she said, ‘When I got up this morning at approximately 4:35 a.m. I found Chucky sitting on the couch watching television. I told him to have a good day and wished him well on his return home.’  She continued to say, ‘Today the police came to my job asking about Chucky and I told them that Chucky had spent the night at my apartment last night.  I then called my house and spoke with Howard.  Howard told me that Chucky was still at the apartment.’

While Terrence Dodson was giving his statement, detectives were also in the process of taking a statement from Anthony Trail in the next room.  As Dodson was sharing his story of a confession that took place from Louisiana on Monday, Trail was in another room at HPD having his written statement recorded, ‘On Tuesday morning, Chucky called me at 9:00 a.m.’    Trail goes on to say, ‘He asked me for a ride to the bus station.  I told him that I recently wrecked my car and it was in the bodyshop.  I told him that I needed to take some papers to the body shop and Chucky came with me.  When we left the bodyshop, we went to the bus station downtown and I dropped him off.  Chucky’s bus was supposed to leave at 1:30 p.m.  We got there at 1:00 p.m.  I told him to call me up.  I went back home.’

The only person that didn’t seem to know where Charles Mamou, Jr., was on Tuesday morning was Terrence Dodson.  Unfortunately, even though police knew that, his statement and testimony became the very center of the case built to sentence Mamou to death.

At thirteen minutes in, Detective Novak didn’t blink when Dodson said, I believe that was Monday that day that Chuckie left at 1:30, Baldy took him to the bus station, Greyhound. I ain’t ride with them, took them to the Greyhound bus station, Chucky left..    

It wouldn’t be surprising to anyone who knew Charles Mamou and Terrence Dodson that Dodson wouldn’t know when Mamou left town. They were cousins, but Dodson was several years younger than Mamou and Mamou wouldn’t have been communicating with him the details of his travels.

Novak continued, ‘Going where?’     

TD: To Louisiana, Lafayette, I guess. Tuesday morning before day, got a call. What you heard?

At this point, Dodson proceeds to share the confession that all the men in the room knew couldn’t have taken place from Louisiana on Tuesday morning ‘before day’.

I’ve struggled with sharing this portion of the statement, as some of what Dodson told police was graphic.  I’ve removed portions I think are not necessary to share, but I’ve had to leave in portions that I feel show just what investigators were listening to and proceeded in their investigation in spite of.  If I felt the evidence supported portions of this statement, I wouldn’t include it.

Also of note, although there are several references to a sexual assault, a rape kit was collected as well as processed and although those results only became known to Charles Mamou two decades later – the prosecution knew the results at the time of the trial.  That issue will be addressed in a later post.    

Terrence Dodson’s telling of the ‘confession’ began at 15:10 into the video.  At over 18:35, he is just getting to the drug deal gone wrong, describing an almost comical scene where Mamou and the other party were tossing a bag of money at each other.

So they went down the dark street.  Dude asked Chuckie, “Where the money?”  So Chuckie said, I got the money, and threw him the paper bag, or whatever. The dude threw it back.  So Chuckie said, “What’s up?” The dude said, “Man take the money out, let me see it.” Chuckie said, “The money right there,” threw it back at him. Chuckie said, by that time, he seen the dude like flinch, you know, like move in his seat. 

Investigators didn’t question the money bag tossing or Dodson describing somebody sitting in a seat.  The drug ‘transaction’ took place behind the car, on the street, not inside the car.

At over 21 minutes into the interview, Dodson is still describing the confession in one phone call.  Detectives also didn’t question the bizarre picture Terrence Dodson was describing, as he talked about Mamou driving around ‘thinking’ after he fled the scene where he had just experienced an attempted robbery at gunpoint.  Although Mary Carmouche was in the car Mamou fled the scene in after his driver left him on the dark alley, the investigation never turned up any sign of struggle within the vehicle.  At the time of Dodson’s interview, the vehicle had been located at the apartments on Fondren where Mamou had been staying. The car had a flat tire and a window shot out.  The drive from the location of the drug deal at midnight on Lantern Point Drive to the apartment complex on Fondren would have taken about twenty minutes, give or take.   

At 21:17 into the interview, TD: So, he burnt off with the girl or whatever, and he said, he was riding around, just riding around thinking.  Said the whole time the girl was all scared or whatever and he kept telling her, “Calm down, calm down, I’ma let you go, I’ma let you go, just calm down, but before he let her go he asked her, you know, “You gonna suck my dick?”  And the girl said uh, he said she asked him, “How much you gonna pay me?” and he said, “I can tell you $10, you know.”  But the girl was like, “Nah, I ain’t finna suck your dick for under $300, or whatever.”  So he’s like, “Alright, well then, that’ll work.” But he also told me, you know, after she did that, he went on and put his drop, she screamed, he said how he felt like crying and all that.

Detectives didn’t question how bizarre it sounded for Mamou to be driving around ‘thinking’ after fleeing a drug shooting in a shot up car with a girl inside, a broken out window and a damaged tire. They didn’t question what had to sound like very strange behavior on the part of Charles Mamou as well as Mary Carmouche, as they listened to the man describing a ‘confession’ that took place in a phone call that they knew didn’t happen.

There has never been evidence of a sexual assault, nor was there any indication that a physical assault of any kind took place inside the car. Yet, the District Attorney repeatedly used Terrence Dodson’s story of a sexual assault to inflame the jury.  So much so that news articles often report Charles Mamou was charged with sexual assault.  He wasn’t. In reality, there is not a shred of evidence that indicates that Charles Mamou even touched the victim.  The D.A. knew that. The only person who ever referred to a sexual assault was Terrence Dodson in a statement he gave – that investigators knew was not based on the facts as they knew them.

The odd statement continued with Terrence Dodson at one point claiming Charles Mamou was planning on killing several other people, including Dodson.

At 23:18 into the interview, DN: Did he tell you their names?

Terrence Dodson then told detectives two names and continued, “He didn’t say that last one and that shit spooked me, I said, man, he was talking about me.  So I played dumb with it. I was like, you know what I’m saying, man you need go on and chill out.

Terrence Dodson then begins to share a story that police, once again, have full knowledge can’t be true.

TD:  So I was like, “Man, you need to calm down,”  His exact word was, “Nah, fuck that. Look I am coming down there, and I will be there at 1:00 in the morning and when I beep you and put 3,1,80 and the time, that mean I’m at the bus station. See if you can find me a ride.  So I am like alright, but shit I turned my beeper off, you know what I’m saying, and that was it.

24:11

DN: What day was this that he was coming down?

TD: This was uh, he told me this yesterday, for this morning, one in the morning.

DN: Tonight he was coming in?

TD: Nah, Nah, yesterday.

DN: He was going to be in at 1:00 this morning, Wednesday morning? 

TD: Yes, yes.

Investigators knew that Charles Mamou had left Texas on a bus at 1:30 on Tuesday afternoon – and yet Terrence Dodson was telling them that Mamou had called him on Tuesday morning from Louisiana ‘before day’, confessed, and told him that he was coming into Houston on a bus on Tuesday, and would be arriving at 1:00 a.m. in the morning on Wednesday – to kill several more people.  It made absolutely no sense that Charles Mamou would get on a bus at 1:30 in the afternoon in Houston, go to Louisiana and get on another bus and come back to Houston by 1:00 a.m. in the morning to murder three people, but investigators chose not to address that.

At thirty minutes in, they again try to get the days correct, although it ultimately doesn’t matter because Charles Mamou never sees this video, nor does the jury.

30:41

(Switches cops)

Cop: Uh, yea real quick, from what you just told us you said it was Monday at 1:30 Baldy took Chucky to the bus station. And then Tuesday morning he called you and he lays it all out. I wanna make sure, Chucky went back to Louisiana on the very day after he did this jacking is that right? Or what, could it have been Tuesday?

31:13

TD: I’m gonna be honest with you, now I’m not really sure but if I’m not mistaken I believe it was Monday when he left. Cause like I said after we picked him up from Fondren, now I made him drop me off and that was that, I ain’t ride with him or nothing. Like I could be mistaken, it might have been Tuesday.

31:44

Cop: Ok, but he called you on Tuesday, and said I am going to be coming in at 1:00 A.M. Wednesday morning to the bus station and I’ll page you then.

TD: Today is Wednesday right?

Cop: Today is Wednesday.

TD: Okay, then, that was last night. He said he was going to come in last night at 1:00 in the morning.

Cop: Last night at 1:00 in the morning, so he would have called you on Tuesday and told you that.

TD: Yeah, that he is gonna be in at 1:00 A.M. in the morning.

32:10

Cop: 1:00 in the morning, Wednesday morning. So he definitely left the day before which would be Monday. Is that correct?

TD: Yeah, he must’ve, he had to leave on Monday.

Cop: Ok. He had to leave on Monday?

The entire time the investigators are asking these questions, they know that Charles Mamou left Houston, Texas, on a bus at 1:30 in the afternoon on Tuesday, December 8, 1998.

Charles Mamou never saw the interview that his cousin gave to police.  Dodson not only told police that Mamou had sexually assaulted and murdered Mary Carmouche, he also told them he had killed several other people on different occasions.  

Dodson also wrote to Mamou more than a month later, while Mamou was in prison.  At the time, Mamou didn’t know anything about the statement his cousin had given, and the jury never saw the letter, but in it Dodson wrote, “I’m glad you didn’t tell me shit about that cause I don’t wanna know shit, I feel better off that way.”

Although the jury never saw the letter or the video statement, they did get to hear Dodson’s testimony, which was not consistent with his statement.    

What Terrence first told police was a confession from Mamou that took place in one phone call from Louisiana became quite different after several months and also several visits with the District Attorney.

Q. Now, when you are having this conversation with the defendant later on – says, ‘Later on I spoke with Charles’ – are you face to face?
A. Yes.
Q. Where are you?
A. On the porch.
Q. Whose porch?
A. Stephanie’s porch, my sister.
Q. Now you gave a whole lot of information in response to the prosecutor’s questions about conversations you had with Charles and go into detail about the jack on jack and these guys with a Bible. There was a shoot-out and goes into detail about where the people were shooting and everything. And then, also talking about the girl had been shot, that they had been outside. And he asked you about talking with Detective Novak, and she supposedly had performed oral sex on him. When do you get that information? What time is that?
A. I don’t really recall. I got, like I said, bits and pieces in person.

Q. Is it one conversation or several?
A. It was several.
Q. Over what period of time?
A. I don’t really recall, a couple of days.
Q. So, it’s not just Monday, it’s Monday and Tuesday?
A. To the best of my knowledge, yeah.

Terrence Dodson’s odd story is what became the foundation of the Harris County District Attorney’s case.  Everything from his story of murder, to a sexual assault, to other murders that Dodson accused Mamou of.  Yet, from day one, they knew the information he was sharing could not have taken place. 

Anyone with information regarding this case can contact me at kimberleycarter@verizon.net.  Anything you share with me will be confidential.

TO CONTACT CHARLES MAMOU:
Charles Mamou #999333
Polunsky Unit 12-CD-53
3872 South FM 350
Livingston, TX 77351